UPDATE 31.10.: Amazon Alexa - ioBroker Skill läuft aus ?

[Ralf]

@k_o_bold
Guten Morgen,
den Skill in der Alexa App habe ich bereits mehrfach (heute morgen wieder) deaktiviert. Bringt immer das Gleiche Ergebnis und funktioniert nicht, obwohl das Konto verknüpft ist und die Berechtigungen erteilt sind.
Komme da einfach nicht weiter, vielleicht noch eine andere Idee ?

[Ralf]

@k_o_bold sagte in Test Adapter MercedesMe v0.0.x:

Mercedes Me Skill in Alexa

Jetzt nochmal alles neu gemacht :

1. Mercedes Me App deinstalliert
2. Mercedes Me Skill in Alexa deaktiviert
3. Mercedes Me Instanz im ioBroker gelöscht
4. Handy neu gestartet
5. Mercedes Me App installiert
6. Mercedes Me Skill in Alexa installiert
7. Mercedes Me Instanz im ioBroker installiert

Ergebnis : keine Verbindung zum Gerät :

Kann vielleicht noch jemand helfen ?

[wendy2702]

@ralf loggen für den Adapter auf debug stellen und log posten.

Ich gehe davon aus das du den Code den du nach schritt 7 und eintragen deiner mercdes me Id per Mail erhalten hast eingetragen hast?

[Ralf]

@wendy2702
habe keinen Code erhalten. In der Adapter-Konfiguration steht jetzt auch nicht Code, sondern Passwort der Mercedes Me App.

Log:

2023-12-27 13:45:00.935 - debug: mercedesme.0 (909395) Redis Objects: Use Redis connection: 127.0.0.1:9001
2023-12-27 13:45:01.070 - debug: mercedesme.0 (909395) Objects client ready ... initialize now
2023-12-27 13:45:01.074 - debug: mercedesme.0 (909395) Objects create System PubSub Client
2023-12-27 13:45:01.076 - debug: mercedesme.0 (909395) Objects create User PubSub Client
2023-12-27 13:45:01.293 - debug: mercedesme.0 (909395) Objects client initialize lua scripts
2023-12-27 13:45:01.311 - debug: mercedesme.0 (909395) Objects connected to redis: 127.0.0.1:9001
2023-12-27 13:45:01.441 - debug: mercedesme.0 (909395) Redis States: Use Redis connection: 127.0.0.1:9000
2023-12-27 13:45:01.545 - debug: mercedesme.0 (909395) States create System PubSub Client
2023-12-27 13:45:01.548 - debug: mercedesme.0 (909395) States create User PubSub Client
2023-12-27 13:45:01.710 - debug: mercedesme.0 (909395) States connected to redis: 127.0.0.1:9000
2023-12-27 13:45:01.823 - info: admin.0 (828879) <== Disconnect system.user.admin from ::ffff:192.168.178.43
2023-12-27 13:45:02.034 - info: mercedesme.0 (909395) starting. Version 0.0.16 in /opt/iobroker/node_modules/iobroker.mercedesme, node: v18.17.1, js-controller: 5.0.17
2023-12-27 13:45:02.110 - debug: mercedesme.0 (909395) Login
2023-12-27 13:45:02.116 - debug: mercedesme.0 (909395) Rqxxxxg24
2023-12-27 13:45:02.117 - debug: mercedesme.0 (909395) https://api.secure.mercedes-benz.com/oidc10/auth/oauth/v2/authorize?response_type=code&client_id=43xxxx7-5845df537beb&code_challenge=RqBxxxxzg24&code_challenge_method=S256&scope=mma:backend:all openid ciam-uid profile email&redirect_uri=https://cgw.meapp.secure.mercedes-benz.com/endpoint/api/v1/redirect
2023-12-27 13:45:02.994 - debug: mercedesme.0 (909395) accNoForm
2023-12-27 13:45:03.010 - error: mercedesme.0 (909395) Login Failed
2023-12-27 13:45:03.047 - debug: mercedesme.0 (909395) third submit result: undefined
2023-12-27 13:45:03.149 - warn: mercedesme.0 (909395) State "mercedesme.0.info.connection" has no existing object, this might lead to an error in future versions

MOD EDIT: Log in Code Tags gesetzt

[wendy2702]

@ralf Version 0.0.16 ist bisschen sehr alt.

Aktuell sollte 0.1.1 im Stable oder besser 0.1.6 im latest sein.

Mit 0.1.6 steht dann auch das in der Konfig:

[tombox]

@ralf
Der Mercedes Me Skill für Alexa hat kein Zusammenhang mit dem Adapter.

Bitte 0.1.6 des Adapters installieren und fertig.

Wenn du Alexa nutzen willst Installiere den Mercedes Me Skill und bei Problemen an Mercedes wenden.

[Ralf]

@wendy2702
die erste "0" in dem WirrWarr übersehen, war der Meinung, installiert ist 0.1.6 Die hatte ich vorher aber auch schon installiert ohne Funktion.

[wendy2702]

@ralf installier mal die aktuelle Version aus dem latest. Nur die Mercedes me id eingeben und Instanz starten. Loggen wieder auf debug und dann hier posten.

Dann solltest du eine Mail mit Code bekommen. Genau wie beim Login mit der App.
Den Code dann in die Instanz eintragen und log posten.

[Ralf]

@wendy2702

[wendy2702]

@ralf ja bitte?

Glaube da fehlt was an Inhalt

[Ralf]

@wendy2702

2023-12-27 16:41:50.895 - info: mercedesme.0 (1008333) Found 1 vehicles
2023-12-27 16:41:50.896 - info: mercedesme.0 (1008333) Creating vehicle xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx with xx-xx xxx
2023-12-27 16:41:50.950 - debug: mercedesme.0 (1008333) https://bff.emea-prod.mobilesdk.mercedes-benz.com//v1/vehicle/xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/capabilities/commands
2023-12-27 16:41:50.983 - info: mercedesme.0 (1008333) Start Websocket Connection
2023-12-27 16:41:50.984 - debug: mercedesme.0 (1008333) Connect to WebSocket
2023-12-27 16:41:51.178 - debug: mercedesme.0 (1008333) WebSocket connected
2023-12-27 16:41:51.194 - debug: mercedesme.0 (1008333) {"message":"Registering User with ciamID: 00110b10cbeb8f54 and App-UUID: cf68df04-1793-4b21-b509-59a064abaa6c"}
2023-12-27 16:41:51.196 - debug: mercedesme.0 (1008333) {"message":"app twin actor was initialized"}
2023-12-27 16:41:51.199 - debug: mercedesme.0 (1008333) {"vinsList":["xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"]}
2023-12-27 16:41:51.239 - debug: mercedesme.0 (1008333) {"commands":[{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"ZEV_PRECONDITION_CONFIGURE","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"ZEV_PRECONDITION_CONFIGURE_SEATS","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"ZEV_PRECONDITIONING_START","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"ZEV_PRECONDITIONING_STOP","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"ENGINE_START","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"ENGINE_STOP","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"AUXHEAT_CONFIGURE","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"AUXHEAT_START","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"AUXHEAT_STOP","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"BATTERY_CHARGE_PROGRAM_CONFIGURE","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"BATTERY_MAX_SOC_CONFIGURE","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"CHARGE_OPT_CONFIGURE","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"CHARGE_OPT_START","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"CHARGE_OPT_STOP","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"CHARGE_PROGRAM_CONFIGURE","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"CHILDPRESENCEDETECTION_DEACTIVATEALARM","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"REMOTE_UPDATE_START","isAvailable":true,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"DOORS_LOCK","isAvailable":true,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"DOORS_UNLOCK","isAvailable":true,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"THEFTALARM_DESELECT_INTERIOR","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"THEFTALARM_DESELECT_TOW","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"THEFTALARM_SELECT_INTERIOR","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"THEFTALARM_SELECT_TOW","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"THEFTALARM_START","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"THEFTALARM_STOP","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"THEFTALARM_CONFIRM_DAMAGEDETECTION","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"THEFTALARM_DESELECT_DAMAGEDETECTION","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"THEFTALARM_SELECT_DAMAGEDETECTION","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"SUNROOF_OPEN","isAvailable":true,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"SUNROOF_LIFT","isAvailable":true,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"SUNROOF_CLOSE","isAvailable":true,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"SPEEDALERT_START","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"SPEEDALERT_STOP","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"TEMPERATURE_CONFIGURE","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"WEEK_PROFILE_CONFIGURE","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"WIPER_HEALTH_RESET","isAvailable":false,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"WINDOWS_OPEN","isAvailable":true,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"WINDOWS_CLOSE","isAvailable":true,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"WINDOWS_VENTILATE","isAvailable":true,"parameters":null},{"additionalInformation":null,"capabilityInformation":null,"commandName":"SIGPOS_START","isAvailable":true,"parameters":[{"allowedEnums":null,"maxValue":30,"minValue":0,"parameterName":"HORN_REPEAT","steps":1},{"allowedEnums":["HORN_LOW_VOLUME","HORN_HIGH_VOLUME"],"parameterName":"HORN_TYPE"},{"allowedEnums":["DIPPED_HEAD_LIGHT","WARNING_LIGHT"],"parameterName":"LIGHT_TYPE"},{"allowedEnums":null,"maxValue":10,"minValue":0,"parameterName":"SIGPOS_DURATION","steps":1},{"allowedEnums":["LIGHT_ONLY"],"parameterName":"SIGPOS_TYPE"}]}]}
2023-12-27 16:41:51.247 - debug: mercedesme.0 (1008333) [{"activeTimes":{"begin":0,"days":[1,2,3,4,5,6,7],"end":1439},"id":600235,"isActive":false,"name":"xxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx, Deutschland","shape":{"circle":{"center":{"latitude":51.42667,"longitude":6.69116},"radius":2236}},"violationType":"LEAVE_AND_ENTER"}]
2023-12-27 16:41:51.249 - warn: mercedesme.0 (1008333) Used invalid characters: mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx, Deutschland.activeTimes.begin changed to mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx_ xxxxxxxxx_ Deutschland.activeTimes.begin
2023-12-27 16:41:51.250 - warn: mercedesme.0 (1008333) Used invalid characters: mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx, Deutschland.activeTimes.end changed to mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx_ xxxxxxxxx_ Deutschland.activeTimes.end
2023-12-27 16:41:51.250 - warn: mercedesme.0 (1008333) Used invalid characters: mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx, Deutschland.id changed to mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx_ xxxxxxxxx_ Deutschland.id
2023-12-27 16:41:51.251 - warn: mercedesme.0 (1008333) Used invalid characters: mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx, Deutschland.isActive changed to mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx_ xxxxxxxxx_ Deutschland.isActive
2023-12-27 16:41:51.251 - warn: mercedesme.0 (1008333) Used invalid characters: mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx, Deutschland.name changed to mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx_ xxxxxxxxx_ Deutschland.name
2023-12-27 16:41:51.252 - warn: mercedesme.0 (1008333) Used invalid characters: mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx, Deutschland.shape.circle.center.latitude changed to mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx_ xxxxxxxxx_ Deutschland.shape.circle.center.latitude
2023-12-27 16:41:51.253 - warn: mercedesme.0 (1008333) Used invalid characters: mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx, Deutschland.shape.circle.center.longitude changed to mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx_ xxxxxxxxx_ Deutschland.shape.circle.center.longitude
2023-12-27 16:41:51.253 - warn: mercedesme.0 (1008333) Used invalid characters: mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx, Deutschland.shape.circle.radius changed to mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx_ xxxxxxxxx_ Deutschland.shape.circle.radius
2023-12-27 16:41:51.254 - warn: mercedesme.0 (1008333) Used invalid characters: mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx, Deutschland.violationType changed to mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx_ xxxxxxxxx_ Deutschland.violationType
2023-12-27 16:41:51.319 - debug: mercedesme.0 (1008333) Received State Updated
2023-12-27 16:41:51.326 - debug: mercedesme.0 (1008333) {"accountCountryCode":"DE","accountIdentifier":"EMAIL_AND_MOBILE","accountVerified":true,"adaptionValues":{"alias":"","bodyHeight":175,"preAdjustment":false},"address":{"addressLine1":"","addressLine2":"","addressLine3":"","city":"Duisburg","countryCode":"DE","doorNo":"","floorNo":"","houseName":"","houseNo":"13","postOfficeBox":"","province":"","state":"","street":"xxxxxxxxx","streetType":"","zipCode":"xxxxxxxxx"},"addressLines":["xxxxxxxxx","xxxxxxxxx","Deutschland"],"birthday":"19xx-xx-xx","ciamId":"00110b10cbeb8f54","communicationPreference":{"contactedByEmail":true,"contactedByLetter":true,"contactedByPhone":true,"contactedBySms":false},"createdAt":"2017-11-16T21:27:31Z","createdBy":"MYMPOR","email":"xxxx.xxxxxx@t-online.de","firstName":"Ralf","isEmailVerified":true,"isMobileVerified":true,"landlinePhone":"+xxxxxx","lastName1":"xxxxxx","lastName2":"","middleInitial":"","mobilePhoneNumber":"+xxxxxxxxx","namePrefix":"","preferredLanguageCode":"de-DE","salutationCode":"MR","taxNumber":"","title":"","unitPreferences":{"clockHours":"24h","consumptionCo":"l/100km","consumptionEv":"kWh/100km","consumptionGas":"kg/100km","relevantConsumptionUnitOptions":["FUEL"],"speedDistance":"km/h, km","temperature":"Celsius","tirePressure":"Bar","userLengthUnit":"cm"},"updatedAt":"2023-12-09T10:39:04Z","userPinStatus":"SET","userPinUpdatedAt":"2023-11-11T06:16:25.436Z"}
2023-12-27 16:41:51.546 - debug: mercedesme.0 (1008333) update for xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx: 0
2023-12-27 16:41:51.717 - warn: mercedesme.0 (1008333) State "mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx, Deutschland.activeTimes.begin" has no existing object, this might lead to an error in future versions
2023-12-27 16:41:51.719 - warn: mercedesme.0 (1008333) State "mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx, Deutschland.activeTimes.end" has no existing object, this might lead to an error in future versions
2023-12-27 16:41:51.720 - warn: mercedesme.0 (1008333) State "mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx, Deutschland.id" has no existing object, this might lead to an error in future versions
2023-12-27 16:41:51.721 - warn: mercedesme.0 (1008333) State "mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx, Deutschland.isActive" has no existing object, this might lead to an error in future versions
2023-12-27 16:41:51.723 - warn: mercedesme.0 (1008333) State "mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx, Deutschland.name" has no existing object, this might lead to an error in future versions
2023-12-27 16:41:51.752 - warn: mercedesme.0 (1008333) State "mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx, Deutschland.shape.circle.center.latitude" has no existing object, this might lead to an error in future versions
2023-12-27 16:41:51.761 - warn: mercedesme.0 (1008333) State "mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx, Deutschland.shape.circle.center.longitude" has no existing object, this might lead to an error in future versions
2023-12-27 16:41:51.762 - warn: mercedesme.0 (1008333) State "mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx, Deutschland.shape.circle.radius" has no existing object, this might lead to an error in future versions
2023-12-27 16:41:51.763 - warn: mercedesme.0 (1008333) State "mercedesme.0.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.geofencing.xxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx, Deutschland.violationType" has no existing object, this might lead to an error in future versions

[wendy2702]

@ralf auto wurde doch gefunden.

Dann solltest du jetzt auch Objekte haben.

Welche ungültigen Zeichen verwendet werden kann man im log nicht (mehr) erkennen

[Ralf]

@wendy2702
ja, Objekte sind all da, auch vorher schon. Habe in dem LOG nur die FIN, meinen Namen und die Adresse rausgenommen. Es waren darin aber keine ungültigen Zeichen vorhanden. Es sei denn, ein Bindestrich im Kennzeichen des Autos ist ein ungültiges Zeichen. Kann das sein ?

[wendy2702]

@ralf in der App steht mein Kennzeichen auch mit Bindestrich.

Laut log betrifft es ja Geofencing, hast du in der App bei Fahrzeugüberwachung was definiert?

[Ralf]

@wendy2702
Nein, da ist nichts aktiviert.

[tombox]

@ralf kannst du bitte die GitHub version testen

[Ralf]

@tombox
Hallo,
ja, das mache ich im Laufe des Tages.
Ich glaube aber mittlerweile, es liegt nicht am ioBroker/Mercedesme Adapter.
Ich habe gestern mit der Mercedes Me Hotline telefoniert, ich denke, es liegt am Skill in Alexa. Ich habe einige Sound-Dateien an Mercedes gesendet und man "versucht" diese auszuwerten. Ergebnisse, falls welche kommen teile ich dann mit.
Sind euch denn noch andere Mitglieder mit diesem Problem bekannt ?

[Ralf]

@tombox
Hier das Ergebnis, bin mir aber nicht sicher, ob diese Version von GitHub nicht installiert war :

ERROR: Process exited with code 25
weniger
mehr
$ iobroker url TA2k/ioBroker.mercedesme --host debian-iobroker --debug

install TA2k/ioBroker.mercedesme

NPM version: 9.6.7

Installing TA2k/ioBroker.mercedesme... (System call)

npm ERR! code 2

npm ERR! A complete log of this run can be found in: /home/iobroker/.npm/_logs/2023-12-29T08_30_32_307Z-debug-0.log

npm ERR! code 2npm ERR! path /opt/iobroker/node_modules/json2iobnpm ERR! command failednpm ERR! command sh -c npm run buildnpm ERR! > json2iob@2.6.1 buildnpm ERR! > tscnpm ERR! npm ERR! error TS2688: Cannot find type definition file for 'bl'.npm ERR! The file is in the program because:npm ERR! Entry point for implicit type library 'bl'npm ERR! npm notice npm ERR! npm notice New major version of npm available! 9.6.7 -> 10.2.5npm ERR! npm notice Changelog: <https://github.com/npm/cli/releases/tag/v10.2.5>npm ERR! npm notice Run `npm install -g npm@10.2.5` to update!npm ERR! npm noticenpm ERR! A complete log of this run can be found in: /home/iobroker/.npm/_logs/2023-12-29T08_30_32_307Z-debug-0.log

host.debian-iobroker Cannot install TA2k/ioBroker.mercedesme: 2

ERROR: Process exited with code 25

[tombox]

@ralf Bitte die version von GitHub nochmal erneut installieren

[Ralf]

@tombox
vorher die vorhandene deinstallieren ?